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Posted, May 12, 2007
Major change in Comp Bike classes?
I was thinking that there are a lot of class divisions within comp bike
for the amount of competitors that there are. There are also a number
of classes which are just out of date. Would it be beneficial to our sport
if this was reduced? In time I thought this would increase the amount of
bikes in each division, and improve the quality of racing. The only
disadvantage to this I can think of is that we would end up with less
"soft indexes" that someone could run in, and be competitive in, on a bike
built with a more limited budget. Possibly discouraging them from racing,
which we obviously don't want to do. They could however run DYO in mod
bike and be competitive there. I am not pushing any agenda here, and am
quite happy to leave things as they are as well. I just thought it would
be worth getting others feedback as to weather it is a good idea and could
help our sport.
Below is how I think the classes could be changed and why.
Streetbike/SB
Reduce to
A/SB - under 5000cc
B/SB - under 1000cc
C/SB - under 600cc
They haven't made factory turbo bikes for 20 years, so why have double
letter classes? Only Suzuki make a performance 750 now. They all make a
600.
Pro Stock/Pro
Reduce to
A/Pro - under 5000cc
B/Pro - under 1000cc
C/Pro _ under 600cc
Pro stock is usually thought of as an all motor class. However you could
also run bikes with one power adder (turbo, nitrous, or supercharger)
and limit them to a 7" rear tyre and no wheelie bars, and 75" wheelbase.
These bikes would compete quite evenly with the traditional 10" tyre,
wheelie bar, allmotor prostock bike.
Non wheelie bar bikes are becoming quite popular overseas and this would
give them a class to compete in without making a new class and index.
Drag Bike/DB
Leave it alone, maybe change C/DB to 600cc and get rid of D/DB.
Also note that for the engine displacement divisions you would be able to
run up a class if desired. eg, a 600cc bike can run in C, B, or A if they
want.
Well what do you think?
Dean Veale
Helenville, NZ.
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Posted, May 12, 2007
In my humble opinion...I like it the way it is.
The way I have seen Motorcycle Drag Racing in NZ is like this...The step
up from just running the odd meeting on your daily ride is BIG and most
guys don't want to do it. By having LESS classes in which those guys, who
are thinking of making the commitment ,can enter and BE COMPETITIVE
you are discouraging them from taking the plunge. As for people going to
the DYO Mod bike class because there is no class in Street/PRO or DB that
they can now be competitive in....Well I'd rather win or be competitive in
the "Premier Classes"...and that's from someone who has won the Mod bike
championship the last two years in a row. It may be a fun class and the
guys who race in it are highly skilled and competitive. But I still
consider it a stepping stone to "Real" racing.
The index system works well at letting all the different classes run
against each other so I don't think we should make the classes smaller.
Some may say that, as I will be running a 400cc bike , that I obviously
would not want the class to move up to 600cc.But I honestly believe that
we need to make it as easy and appealing as we can for more riders to join
up. Not make it less appealing by restricting the classes and
opportunity's for guys to be competitive.
Just my opinion obviously.
Username: Richard
My Town & Country: AK
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Posted, May 14, 2007
No agenda Dean???....Aren't you building an outlaw style long wheelbase
blown no wheelie bar bike, to run as AA/DB in comp bike?
As you are probably discovering these are by no means a budget bike to
build. They run the same engines as Funnybike or Promod, and are very
expensive to build and maintain. Not to mention they are damn insane. I
have seen plenty of footage of those things going out of control with
experienced riders, usually by the 1/8th mile where they are already doing
over 200kmh.Wheelie bars are safer, so rather you than me. Look forward to
seeing that beast on the track. Hope you carry plenty of spare
underwear!!!
Username: Ian Wilkins
My Town & Country: Akl
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Published, May 14, 2007
Hi Guys,
Can someone please explain the difference between your ProBike and Drag
Bike classes ? It appears to be a hang-over from years gone by and is
it still applicable today ? Should the two be combined so there is the one
index ?
Just something I have wondered about since first racing in your great
country in 2003.
Steve Paris,
S & M Drag Racing
s.paris@mmwnt.com.au
My Town & Country: Darwin Australia
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Posted, May 15, 2007
Hi Steve, Probike retains the stock engine cradle and is wheelbase
restricted, also engines must remain within the correct manufacturers
series for that chassis. Dragbike is reasonably unlimited, more for full
purpose built chassis. They run well against each other, just one fine
example is Ken Stolpman's A/PRO bike which runs low 8's. Alas, Ken found
love in Michigan and we now miss that badass ride of his here. I believe
he is waiting for snow to melt to bring it out!!!
Ian Wilkins
Town & Country: AKL
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Posted, May 15, 2007
Steve
Our Prostock rules require the use of the stock engine cradle and must
retain stock "appearance" Drag bike is for purpose built machinery.
This brings me to the points Dean raised. If we are to align ourselves
with other countries Prostock classes we need to consider more than the
all motor issue. NHRA Prostock for example are specially built chassis and
must have a body shape newer than 10 years old. Our rules are somewhat
dated (how many production bike now even have a cradle type frame?) but
would suggest there is not the depth of field to support such a format.
Username: Tristan
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Posted, May 15, 2007
Steve, in our rules the main difference between the two is that in
Prostock you have to use the factory main frame cradle and can only go
+20% in the wheelbase. Ian, I won't need spare underwear. The NZDRA have
already thought of that, and made it compulsory to wear nappies when we
get into the 7's.I can appreciate your concerns Richard, but I am just
thought it would be good to get the classes relevant to what is being
built and raced today. Especially the double letter street bikes. These
things just aren't around, and if you did find one in the back of a barn
somewhere it wouldn't go as well as the modern sport bike anyway. As for
the engine capacities is there any reason why you shouldn't be able to
race up a class? I can't think of one. In the Prostock class we allow
Nitrous and Turbos but no superchargers. Why? I just think the rules need
an overall update.
Dean Veale
My Town & Country: Helenville, NZ.
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Posted, May 16, 2007
Turbos were allowed in the late 70s because you could buy a Z1 turbo
factory fitted and Brent Hyde fitted a Turbo to his CB750 road ridden
bike. When NO2 was acceptable At the same point we allowed methanol and
injection as all the TRICK PETROL'S were not available back then to run
big compressions.The class used to be called Altered Bike
Yes all the Bike Rules need bringing up to date and we can't leave it
to NZDRA IT IS NOT UP TO THEM IT IS UP TO THE BIKE RACERS to
submit all the RULES and then it will be voted on,
Athol
My Town & Country: Pokeno
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Posted, May 16, 2007
Athol, yes, you are correct, it is up to us to submit the proposals, and
it is high time we all got together and came up with a format we ALL agree
on to submit. Unfortunately we are too late this year, some changes have
been made, but to be honest the changes made will have little effect and
are not enough. There were plenty of submissions, I just don't think we
are being taken seriously enough yet and we perhaps need to find a louder
voice in united numbers for the changes required to update things.
Thoughts anyone?
Ian Wilkins
Auckland NZ
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Published, May 17, 2007
G'Day Everyone,
Steve Paris here, I thought I might put down some ideas about the
structure of your bike racing formats, hope you don't mind.
It appears to me that the system you currently run under could do with a
bit of a re-vamp and I offer the following suggestions for discussion.
It is unusual that you have a dragbike and probike classes in your Comp
Bike bracket. The probike rules ( standard engine cradle ) was possibly
set up in line with the Australian Group One Probike rules which required
the bike to use the original cradle but this was dumped in the early
nineties as it was no longer deemed applicable and the fact that the
use/non use of a std cradle has no real bearing on the nature of the bike.
Also, your 20% increase in swing arm rule is a strange one.
The two classes of racing being modified bike and competition bike as you
have are good but could be amended as follows to more accurately
reflect the bikes racing:
Modified Bike
Modified bike is a group three DYO bracket that any type of motorcycle may
race in (except nitro) It would include street bikes and modified
bikes of all styles and engine sizes with nitrous and turbos permitted.
This class may be seen as an entry level bracket and one which a
competitor may race in until they improve their times to the point where
they may be able to race in Competition Bike; OR they may wish to stay in
modified bike forever, which is fine.
DYO provides close racing and is by far the most common form of bike
drag racing in Australia.
All bikes in this bracket could be designated as follows:
| |
Naturally Aspirated |
Supercharged/Turbo/Nitrous |
| Under 700cc |
D/MB |
DD/MB |
| 700 - 999cc |
C/MB |
CC/MB |
| 1000-1199cc |
B/MB |
BB/MB |
| 1200cc & over |
A/MB |
AA/MB |
The engine sizes have been changed to more accurately reflect their
performance levels and in line current models.
As this is a DYO bracket, the designation is for information only and
perhaps preparation for Comp bike.
Competition Bike
Competition Bike is a Group two bracket (index racing) for purpose built
drag bikes, modified bikes and street bikes. Bikes would be either a
Competition Bike (CB) or a Street Bike (SB). Street Bike class is for
street bikes only and they should retain head & tail lights, padded seat,
suspension -ie real street bikes and bikes with modified swing arm, brakes
or wheelie bars are a competion bike.
Classes could be as follows:
| |
Nat. Asp |
1 form s/chging |
Street bikes |
| Under 700cc |
D/CB |
DD/CB |
D/SB |
| 700 - 999cc |
C/CB |
CC/CB |
C/SB |
| 1000-1199cc |
B/CB |
BB/CB |
B/SB |
| 1200& over |
A/CB |
AA/CB |
A/SB |
| Pushrod |
P/CB |
PP/CB |
P/SB |
Top Bike class could also be included and may be defined by wheelbase,
nitro use or whatever rules are considered applicable for the types of
bikes you have to run in the class - or you may put Top Bikes into a Group
One heads up class - its up to you.
These ideas are out there to help you guys ( and girls ) consider what/if
you want to change and are drawn from the best aspects of the rules
of Comp & Mod bike that I have raced under over the years.
What do you think ?
Cheers,
Steve Paris
S & M DRAG RACING
Email: s.paris@mmwnt.com.au
Tel: 0061889853344
My Town & Country: Darwin, Australia
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Posted, May 17, 2007
RULES YES RULES
Before I had started my bike for the first time I got the latest ACU
[UK],, Prostar [USA],, ANDRA [AUST] and NZDRA RULE BOOKS and read all the
rules and SAFTEY REGS. for my class These were all used as a Minimum
starting point for MY own safety some are going to be introduced into
Prostar next year, if you are racing tomorrow you cant freeze frame an
accident till next season when you start using it. ACT DO IT NOW YOU WANT
NEW RULES ACT UNITED AND NZDRA JUST MIGHT SURPRISE YOU IF YOU ARE UNITED
When the rebuild happened the bike was built to firstly comply with
Prostar then ACU then ANDRA Rules if it complied with those then there
aint going to be any problem complying to NZDRA Rules. The AUSSIES will be
frequenting or shores more and more and we theirs SO when the new rules
start getting knocked around take a good long look at or West Islands
Rules which makes for a level playing field.
Athol
athol@studnz.co.nz
My Town & Country: GOD ZONE
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Posted, May 17, 2007
How about we all get together at your place Athol and maybe in the haze of
Saturday morning and get something written down that we all agree on
besides the single malt of course. YES it is up to us comp BIKE RIDERS or
do you want the tin tops to rule on that one to?
I won't need a nappy when I get in the 7's just deeper pockets
Steve...ProMod came about in the states because Pro Comp outlawed carb/nitrous
in the late 80's and there was nowhere else for nitrous bikes
to go "Nitrous Wars" by Ed Killar pg 39applicible only by numbers.
Trouble is we have missed the deadline for rulebook submissions for the
coming season.
Some pretty nasty accidents with those non wheeliebar streched bikes..they
look awesome but ...see YouTube
Dean. If we get rid of D/DB where would Richard race..if he sorts out the
RD400?
PARTY ON..
Ian Taylor
My Town & Country: Wainuiomata
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Posted, May 17, 2007
In the past there has been specific class reps. This was then changed to
driver area reps. We need to make our opinions known in the first instance
through these people. As Ian stated we have missed the boat for the
upcoming season but most of our drag racing clubs have AGM's looming so
now is the time to get involved in our respective clubs and aim to get
voted in as area reps. Even if we only get one "biker" in it will be a
step in the right direction. Maybe we can also to push for a class rep
system to be re introduced. I think everyone would agree the rules need
review by motorcycle racers
not car drivers. I also agree we need to eliminate some of the obsolete
classes and bring our rules more into line with current formats and
available machinery.
Tristan Scalmer
My Town & Country: Nelson, NZ
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Posted, May 19, 2007
I was not intending to get anything through for this year. But at the rate
things happen if we start working on it now, we should be able to get
something together for 2008.Richard could still run his bike in C/Pro, but
I admit it would be hard to compete with a 600 sport bike on his RD.
It may be best to keep the capacity breaks as they are. I'm just throwing
ideas around. There are a number of bikes around running the /Pro classes,
so it may not be wise to ditch that class and make them run /DB. The main
changes that I see as required so that the rules make sense are;
Allow a bike to run up a class (either in capacity or class, eg C/Pro
could run in AA/DB) if they want without a re-tech. This would help bring
down the slow indexes. Allow superchargers in /Pro. If you can add a turbo
or nitrous, why not a blower? Get rid of double letter /SB.
And here's a new one. Does anyone want to see a heads up (group 1)class
for AA/DB if we could get the numbers?
Dean & Inge Veale
Town & Country: Helenville, NZ.
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Posted, May 19, 2007
Ian Taylor, the nappy referred to is a ballistic blanket and daiper,of
which I already run a Prostar approved type from Taylor ballistics for
SAFETY!!!! ( Inline fours spit the crank out the
bottom when they go, where does all that oil go then? Yep, rear tyres
aren't very good at soaking up oil!) I too looked at overseas rules when I
built my new bike and believe me, safety is the key issue with these rules
and we need to be aligned with other countries for our benefit when we
travel, and for everyone's safety.Why don't we look at the ANDRA format
and align ourselves with that. It is up to date and addresses classes and
safety regs effectively. It would be far easier to simply adopt a mirror
image of their format, than attempt to rewrite NZ rules any other way.
What do we all reckon?
Ian Wilkins
atmos@xtra.co.nz
My Town & Country: Akl, NZ
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Posted, May 19, 2007
Thanks Steve Paris, finally someone out side NZ has brought this
up....this is something that I raised with the NZDRA over 12 months ago
and they would or could not make a choice to vote on this, let alone
getting all the DB racers to agree on this before time!! I'm more than
happy to align our classes with Australia, which allows REAL PROSTOCK
BIKES into a set class. Currently if you import a NHRA prostocker or ANDRA
Prostocker, the NZDRA can't put it into any class other than, deem you as
a dragbike.... which it's actually a PROSTOCKER! not a dragbike!
The good thing about the ANDRA rules are it allows any racer to compete
into either mod bike or comp bike, in which mod bike has so many
classes in its group and the slower bikes still have the ability to
compete and win against faster bikes. Without these slower bikes... or new
riders....the class would not grow!
It all starts from the bottom, when guys/girls trade up, to go faster...
as they all get hooked by the little BUG of motorcycle drag racing!
Username: Phil
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Posted, May 20, 2007
While it would be good to adopt the Aussie rules in some ways, they may
not necessarily be best for NZ. I know that some of their Street Bike
rules are a bit crazy. Also while you may not be able to run one of their
ProStock bikes here in /Pro, it wouldn't really matter as it would still
be able to run more than 1sec under the /DB index, so be more than
competitive. Actually if you kept our /Pro rules the same as they are
except for limiting them to a 7" rear tyre, I think they would more suit
what we have in NZ.
We also do already have our mod bike class for DYO which allows any style
of bike, it is just that at the moment it seems to be only being used by
road bikes.
Dean & Inge Veale
My Town & Country: Helenville, NZ.
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Posted, May 25, 2007
Hey Dean,
Get a ANDRA Rule Book and have a read....there are many bike racers that
run under the ANDRA rules! and it seams simiple to aline "(our out
dated 20 year old rules)" to run under their format!!!!If you had read the
submissions to changes to the rule book ... you should have submitted them
well before September 2007,....not now... otherwise the changes would have
been made!!
Bring on real prostock rules.... like ANDRA and NHRA! Then racing will
begin!!!!
Phil Nunn
My Town & Country: CHCH
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Posted, May 27, 2007
Hi Phil,
I already have an ANDRA rule book, and have read it. As I said their
streetbike rules are out of date, so why would you want to adopt them.
Their prostock class certainly does have some excellent racing, which I
saw when I was over there last year. But what is the problem with
running one of their prostock bikes here in A/DB? Or are you suggesting we
start a Group1 Prostock class here separate from comp bike? That would
mean a heads up class, for which there are no bikes in the country that
could run in it. I don't think that would provide very good racing. Or is
there a queue of people with plenty of money waiting to get one? Obviously
heads up is the best racing if you can get a good number of strong
competitors in one class. This was partially my reasoning behind reducing
the number of classes in comp bike. With lots of classes and not many
bikes, you end up with almost everyone on a different index, which in
reality is not a whole lot different from DYO. With less classes you will
hopefully get more than one bike in each class which will keep them
pushing harder and improve the racing. In time one class may become strong
enough (wheather it be "real Pro stockers, A/DB, D/DB, or whatever) that
it would be feasible to split it off into it's own group 1 class.
Dean Veale
My Town & Country: Helensville
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Posted, June 4, 2007
I think Rule Submissions had to be in before mid April-07, NZDRA met late
April-07, to discuss rule submissions for the coming season.
I think this country doesn't have enough competitors to reduce the number
of classes that we currently have. Let's face it, we struggle to get
8 comp bikes to any given meeting, and I can only remember 2 meetings
since 1990 when we have had over 16 comp bikes at the one meeting (but
perhaps I am wrong). We just don't have that many bikes, well, not ones
that turn up to meetings anyway.
I think we are years away from having enough bikes to split off into a
Group 1 division (which if we did would halve (or even further reduce)
the number of bikes we have in comp bike now, effectively killing off the
lower classes.
I also think that whilst revamping Pro-stock (and perhaps all bike) rules
would be a good idea, I don't think we should be limiting Pro-stock
to a 7" tyre. Our tracks aren't always up to Willowbank or NHRA standard,
and we need all the traction we can get. Having said that, it is
fair to say our track promoters do the best they can with what they have
got (very low crowd attendances so very little income to pump back into
the sport), so we should be thankful we have the number of places (I say
places, not tracks, as most of them are not dedicated drag strips) to drag
race, that we do.
Perhaps a good time to talk about rules is when we all front up to the
Aussie Bike Tour meetings here in NZ, coming up Dec-07/Jan-08 (paid you
Motorcycle Quarter Mile Club fee for the year yet)?
Motorcycle Quarter
Mile Club Click here
Cheers,
Ian Hilder
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